Let’s say that for whatever reason, guns are available but the ammo supply has dried up. We’ve seen it happen several times in recent years for various reasons and it’s likely to happen again one of these days.
What are the five guns I would choose to own if I could only own five, assuming ammunition is scarce?
The good people over at Off The Grid News asked this question, and in this story (clicky) “The 5 Best Survival Guns When Ammo Is Scarce” gave their writer’s answer. While I found his answers reasonable, I noticed that they were different than I would personally have chosen.
The five weapons writer Terry Nelson chose were all good guns. He picked the Ruger 10/22 Take Down; the Sig P516 AR Pistol, AR Carbine or AK Platform; the Remington 870 shotgun; Remington bolt action rifle; and the ubiquitous Glock.
Spice preparing to shoot a Sig AR Pistol in 9mm… she liked it, but…
A look at 5 guns
Setting aside the issue I have with calling “Sig P516 AR Pistol, AR Carbine or AK Platform” a single gun (to fit in the 5 guns theme), that list has some meaty choices on it. Honestly, though, I disagree with some of them quite a bit.
I’ve got no problem with the Remington 870 (or any similar well-respected brand of .12 gauge pump shotty with interchangeable barrels and chokes). Great choice. I’ve also got no problem with a common caliber Glock, and his choice of 9mm is the same as mine since it’s hard hitting, common as dirt, reliable and you can put a whole lotta rounds in one magazine.
Therefore, I’m agreeing with those two and making them my first two choices.
Bolt action? Yes please.
I will agree with a “center-fire bolt action rifle” being my third choice, as it is ideal for big game hunting… but I’m not really comfortable calling the Remington my choice. I own a Marlin, a Remington, a Savage and a Howa bolt gun, my favorite of them is the Savage .308 Hog Hunter… it has the great Savage Accutrigger, it’s a beast of a gun, a tack driver and very reasonably priced. The Hog Hunter is fairly short (“20) barrel without sacrificing accuracy, it has a thicker “medium contour” threaded barrel that is accurate longer than one might expect.
I like the Hog Hunter in .308 in real life, and it’s perfect for this list because that’s probably the most common high powered round in the USA (not counting .223, which is NOT my idea of a good “deer, hog & bigger” hunting round). It comes with iron sights and that threaded barrel is ready for whatever you want to put on the front (suppressor, muzzle brake, flash hider, etc.) Did I mention that it’s also inexpensive?
Our path to 5 guns diverges
The Ruger 10/22 Take Down is where we part ways significantly, and I think for good reason. Our friend and writer Paranoid Prepper disagrees with me.
I like 10/22’s, in fact I own a 10/22 Take Down stainless model and it shoots well… as long as it has the right type of .22 ammo to eat. Therein lies my problem. If ammo is in short supply and you are shopping wherever you can find it, buying a gun that is picky about what brands and types of ammo it likes to eat makes no sense to me. This particular gun is one of the next up in my Salty’s Gun Reviews series.
Additionally, sporting a semi-automatic gun that is not a self-defense weapon also makes no sense to me either, since one is far more likely to go through a lot of rounds (which, again, are hard to come by in this scenario).
I own two 10/22’s, and both are picky on the ammo they like to eat. I had a third one that I traded off recently that was even more picky than the ones I kept.
My idea?
Rather than going the 10/22 route (again, they are fine guns and I own two) for this scenario, I would recommend instead to go with the Ruger American Rifle Bolt Action in .22LR. It uses the the same exact magazines as the 10/22 does, but it is more accurate by far, you can shoot any type of rotgut .22LR you can dig up and it doesn’t care.
Additionally, it’s a bolt gun so it doesn’t go through ammo as quickly. There is NO WAY under the sun I would ever recommend using ANY .22LR semi-auto gun for self defense due to the reliability issues inherent in the round, and for hunting purposes accuracy in a .22 is more important than rate of fire.
I only “sort of” disagree with his choice of primary defense guns because, frankly, he picked 3 different kinds and one of them is what I would recommend to most people. I would feel perfectly comfortable recommending a good AR-15 by the likes of Colt, Daniel Defense, Windham Arms, CMMG or any other quality manufacturer.
I would also feel good about recommending any AK-47 that uses 7.62×39 by a good manufacturer, like my personal favorite Vepr, also Arsenal & Definitive Arms. I actually own a couple of WASR’s and one of them is the most accurate 7.62×39 gun I own, beating out my SIG 556XI, but I’m not really recommending the WASR because some of the older ones are just not good guns. I don’t like N-Paps because they don’t use standard furniture.
I totally disagree with owning a pistol-length AR as your primary defense gun for many reasons, not the least of which is that they reduce the effectiveness and muzzle velocity of a round that is already a bit on the “iffy” side of effective in the first place.
My personal choice for a SHTF self defense carbine (and Spice’s as well) is the IWI Tavor X95, but the price tag on he X95 is scary high… for most people, a good Colt AR (or similar from a good manufacturer) is a lot more reasonable choice. The Tavor is just slightly longer than the SIG pistol, but it has a 16.5 inch barrel length to accelerate rounds to their full potential where the 10 inch barrel of the handgun just doesn’t and it’s just slightly longer.
What do you good folks think?
No particular issues with the guns in this article, but now that we have that out of the way………………Pistol: I’m no Glock fan, but it is a decent choice, especially in 9mm, but if I had to personally make a single choice, I would choose a high qual 357 revolver, 4″ barrel, one that can take 9mm also. I can now shoot 38 spl, 357 mag, 9mm, 38 colt/38 long/38 short, and in many cases, 38S&W. Not always, but often, depending on the particular gun. Remember, we’re talking emergency here. 22 rifle: We part ways here. I grew up with a single shot Win Mod 67, shooting any and everything I could stuff in it. It killed everything from mice to deer(often, and I never crippled a single one) I’m sure I put near 100,000 rounds through it, never had a malfunction till I wore the extractor down, I never once lost or damaged a magazine cause it didn’t have one, and I believe I cleaned the gun once or twice. Center fire rifle: Endless choices, bolt or lever, 223/30-30/308/30-06………..Don’t discount the ubiquitous SKS…I have a variety of “things” available to me depending on the social occasion, in an emergency I would take an AR platform. Variety of uses, light and common and decently reliable…….shotguns you’re “spot on.” Regardless of what you have. “run what you brung” is going to be the order of the day, staying gray will be paramount. Regardless of your armament, anyone that plans on going Rambo will soon be a statistic……
One of my favorite guns to plink with is a Ruger Blackhawk .357 with 9mm conversion barrel. Granted, it’s not a SHTF type gun because it’s a single action gun and those are not good self defense choices (I bought it for the range, so it’s perfect for what I use it for… plinking). I like your choice.
I own SKS’s and love them (My 1953 Tula is as sweet of shooting gun as I have ever seen) but the prices of an SKS today take them right up into the AR zone, and I will take a true detachable magazine AR over an SKS every single day of the week in a self-defense situation (I agree with you, definitely, on that!). My absolutely mint Tula cost me $69 back in the day, and for that money, they were a no-brainer. Now at $400 and up? That’s close to inexpensive AR & AK money, so… while the SKS is a great gun, I find it hard to recommend a 30-50 year old used gun over new manufacture.
I’m curious about the reliability issues you are having with the 10/22. Initially, in the break-in period (out to 500 or 1,000 rounds) I had some stove piping issues, but that is common during break-in for this carbine. Mine is not the take-down model. Since then, It eats everything I put through it. Having said that, I have two questions. First, are yours broken in? Second, are yours all take downs or are some of them the standard version?
Breaking guns in is never a problem around my house, we shoot a LOT. Of the two I own now, one is the original stainless model (the one with the soft case). My other 10/22 is a 20-year-old standard model purchased God only knows where. I wouldn’t really say they have “reliabilty” issues per-say, because if you feed them good quality ammo they run just fine, mostly. Any of the high end CCI’s they love, and they even both eat the junk Golden Bullets pretty well. I usually feed them Thunderbolts, they like those. Neither one likes to eat Federal Bulk very much, though, which is odd because the one I traded off didn’t like Golden Bullets but it ate Federal Bulk just fine. Mostly stove piping, but some FTF as well. I’ve polished the ramps and I keep everything clean (they are a bit of a pain in the ass to strip completely down, but not hideous like some .22 autos). Having said all that, I see zero advantage to them in a low-ammo availability situation to the Ruger American Rifle I described. I don’t need semi-auto for hunting, why not use the most accurate .22LR I own to pop that rabbit? If it’s within 75 yards, I’m not going to miss it, so to me, the bolt gun makes the most sense.
I like rifle, pistol combinations. In a shortage a nice pair is a colt/S&W/Ruger 357 and the Ruger 77-357. Nice deer rifle and good pistol for self defense. Also own a 44 mag pistol and 77-44 but with shortage 44 mag might be hard to find.
Everyone who reads this is going to think I am freaking out of my mind. So, right after your beverage involuntarily exits your nostrils from laughing so hard, and you catch your breath, read this again and see if it makes more sense a second time.
I will have an air gun / pellet gun. It is ancient technology (16th century), reliable as all get out, SILENT, accurate, inexpensive to purchase and shoot, can kill just about any critter in Texas and I can MAKE my own pellets! From my perspective, if you have 5 guns, one should be an air rifle.
I’m not thinking about home defense. I thinking about long term survival and putting food on the table. I will have a “powder burner” for defense, but for everyday use I think I will go with an air rifle. Fun fact, Lewis & Clark took an air rifle on their expedition across the continent.
Air rifles are great for people on a budget. You can get fantastic .22 caliber models for <$200. 500 pellets cost $10 and take up less room than a standard box of ammunition which allows you to carry more ammunition if you don't have a vehicle. You can get a .50 caliber that can shoot "shotgun" type shells, arrows and pellets for less than $600. There are a bunch of advantages.
There is MUCH to be said about air rifles. You definitely want to have at least one in case you need it.
Merman,
I agree with the air gun . I have 5 .177, .22. and a .45. Find ammo for the .45 is hard at times, but I can make my own when it snow for a week.
Best Regards,
Ranger Rick
North Idaho
I am surprised that no one mentioned the value of a good suppressor for their rifle. It can be adapted on everything from a 22 to a 30 cal. I think there are times when not letting others know your location could be the difference between surviving or not. When you fire your rifle you are telling everyone within earshot that you have both gun and ammo. I think the less attention you draw the better.
Suppressors are outstanding, but… and as of right now it’s a BIG but… you have to jump through A LOT of federal hoops to buy one. They are legal in 42 states, but the whole Federal Stamp thing is a real turn-off. You are ABSOLUTELY right, the less attention you draw the better, but having said that, suppressors are just one more way for Uncle to keep track of you.
Since shortages have occurred several times, we all ought to stock up while availability is good (like now). If you do that you can choose whatever you like without worry about shortages. You like some unusual caliber? Stock up.
As long as it is a common caliber, just about any relatively modern gun in good condition will work for SHF. I have tried to accumulate something in the most common calibers so i have a better chance of finding/bartering for more. My favorite combo is my M-1D and an Israeli Jericho 941 in 45ACP. For light game, a Winchester 22 lever gun and a Ruger Mk 1 long barrel.
Considering the scenario, as someone who has worked retail firearm sales before, including a store closing, I have to disagree with a couple of your choices. .308 is not a problem (.30-06 is a little better when the supply’s stop coming in though) and .22 is cheap enough that you should have a healthy stock before a shortage. 12 gauge is great too. But 9mm and 5.56/.223 are the first thing that will have empty shelf space. The only Glock I own is in .40 S&W precisely because it is popular enough that the stock is good, but not popular enough that there would be a rush on it during a shortage. It’s not my favorite round, but it’s in the shelves. Not really sure what the best way to go for a fighting rifle would be because .223 and 7.62×39 – at least around here – goes pretty fast. For (quite) a bit more money, a .308 semi auto like an M1A, SCAR 17S, Or FAL would be a good choice to ensure ammo availability – plus you can share with your bolt gun.
Just my 2 cents
@ 66 years young let me use the kiss principal :
1) 22 rim fire accurate low cost can take well placed shot large or small food on the table.
2) 357/38 special accurate available revolver/rifle (yes a lever action rifle) good at a 100 yards + hog and deer getter food on the table. I like a mixed grind.
3) 12 ga, pump I like my 1200 Winchester pump Mom was always partial to her Ithaca scatter, splatter, or punch W/ thumb size slug 100+ yards varied the magazine load to match the situation. Won’t shoot through the house walls with proper load.
4) AK-47 accurate long way out, large mag capacity, tie 3 40 round mags together for 120 rounds of blazing fury. My time for 120 rounds 1 minute 17 seconds, And I ain’t Rambo. One well placed round is better than 120 going every where. Works well as hunting gun and cover fire in certain situations
(Been there done that), last but not least filthy falker will shoot I have personally broke loose a stuck bolt with combat hatchet (would not recommend this).
5) Flint Lock Yea I don’t really like them either. Here is the but part: I can find and make my own flint, I can make my own powder, I can find something to cram down the barrel ( done that to) just wrap it up in a greasy piece of cloth, doesn’t take much of a gun smith or a lot of tools to make broken parts.
Conclusion: All ammo for the different calibers is reasonably common, all guns have reasonable attributes.
Second Conclusion: learn how to build, tiller, string a bow, make arrows, and shoot the darn thing. Ammo problem solved, good for at least 50 yards+ It will kill a 2000 pound + buffalo, you can reload quickly with a tree between you and the buff (been there done that also) at my age I would go ahead and climb the tree to at least 10 feet.
I agree with you on the Savage. One thing I really like about them is you can change the barrel yourself if needed (yes, I realize you need to have a spare barrel on hand). You could with a Rem 783 too, but my lone experience with that rifle hasn’t been good. For a 22, I like my Rem pump. Eats anything, not just LR but also longs, shorts, shot loads, etc.
Also I agree with MERMAN about keeping a good air rifle on hand.
Dont discount the SKS. Doing a magdrop mod takes minutes with a dremel, and they will take any tapco or other aftermarket SKS mag, Snaps in easily without having to hold the bolt back to swap, I even have 75 round drums for mine and its more accurate and just as reliable as my AKs and RPKs and it feeds reloaded ammo with .308 bullets just as good and as accurate as the .312 russian standard, Handy if it came to a shortage. I prefer a good .45 for a pistol instead of the 9mm just for the stopping power, but again a 1911 or similiar quality steel pistol instead of any of the composite ones, at least my dog cant chew the grip off those..and I have an OLD 10/22 that eats any .22lr I feed it all day long, But I do understand the problem with the newer ones my Charger has a diet like a vegan teen girl.. Definitely a .12 gauge pump, I like my mossy 500s, both my self defense model with the T6 and pistol grip and my Shockwave, not the most fun to shoot but in close quarters outdoors its a broom, but thats personal preference any pump will work. Last but not least for me would be a Mosin Nagant, cheap, fairly accurate, almost indestructable and ammo is easy to find and also can use the .308 size bullets in a reloaded 7.62×54 with no issues I have ever seen, and anything I would be hunting it will drop. The urban problems will be minimal here so wall penetration etc is not an issue, not many walls out where I am. As far as an AR, the only advantage to one I can see would be ammo availability, and even that isnt enough of a plus for me to carry a rifle that requires constant cleaning and has such a low tolerance to mud/sand etc. The SKS fulfills any role an AR would for me with the added reliability factor, especially with a good collapsible stock, high cap removable mags, and the ability to fire standard .308 bullets reloaded into the 7.62×39 brass.
Thank you for your response, and I realize we all have different takes on things. I appreciate you taking the time to share yours. Me? I’ve had several modded SKS’s over the years, and honestly, I find the standard SKS modded to take external mags too “fiddly” for my taste, the mags are more difficult to insert than a standard AK’s, and they are more “jammy” than a standard AK (i.e. a gun that never jams).
Years ago when SKS’s were $89 everywhere you looked and AK’s were a couple of hundred more, it made a lot of sense. Now, where low end AK’s are nearly the same price as an SKS? I’ll take the AK over a modded SKS every single time.
In states where AK’s are illegal, modding out your SKS also makes them illegal, so… not really an improvement IMHO.
Still, I don’t know every darned thing, and thanks for your response. 7.62×39 is a FANTASTIC round, and I use (and store) a lot of them.
I’m going to agree with Merman. If I only get 5 guns then one of them will be my Ruger .22 cal Air rifle. Pellets are cheap. I can stash 10,000 of them for what 1,000 .22 Lr bullets cost or less! Add to that a .357/9mm revolver, a good .22 rifle and a bolt action rifle in 7.62 x 39. Mine is a Mini Mauser. Last up is an AR with multiple uppers. Minimum would be .223 and 7.62 x 39 but if money allowed I’d also add in the .300 blackout and if it was an AR 10 then .308 for sure.
During the ammo shortage, I would check the store shelves anyway just to see what was left behind. Almost always .17 HMR was on the top shelf pushed back out of the way. Not saying this is the best bullet to have but if availability is the issue, this bullet was always in stock.
Well, this discussion has been around since the Chinese invented gunpowder. That said, I agree with the logic of everyone here, so here’s my 2 cents. Something that maybe in the back of everyone’s mind but hasn’t made it to the page yet, hand loading. One of my first deer hunting gifts from my Dad, close to 50 years ago, was a used Marlin 30-30 and a Lee loader. I spent evenings loading my own cartridges. By the time I was in high school I had purchased a 30 cal. mold and with an ample amount of old tire weights I was now molding my own bullets. And if I was strapped for cash I would recycle powder from old 303 British rounds that I had purchased at farm auctions. The only thing I had to purchase were primers, even though we did try to recycle primers for old cartridges with some success, I don’t recommend it, LOL. The 30-30 is still a great cartridge, the lever action which is rock solid plus you can find rounds in every sporting good store in 50 states and Canada plus half the gas stations in the upper Midwest.
You tell me what makes you an expert? Or for that matter qualified to even make such recommendations? Lets start with what is needed. A heavy rifle, a light rifle, a shot gun. Thats it.And dont go into pistols for “self defense” most people stand a 50/50 chance against someone who is as competent as they are, and against a trained person the odds go way down, So a .22 good pick.and in shtf situations I find sporting rounds are more available as opposed to military and police rounds.
Well, I do have a bit of experience over the years with firearms, having taken many training courses, classes, apprenticed with a gunsmith, rebuilt/modified/re manufactured parts, bought and sold hundreds of firearms, stuff like that. Not sure if that’s enough qualification for you, but it’s all I have. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts!
Here’s the thing. Yes, a rifle or shotgun is optimal for defense, and should be one’s first consideration. But don’t dismiss the handgun totally. It has the advantage of being unobtrusive, and is much more practical to “have with you always”. Yes, they are harder to use effectively, which puts the requirement on the owner to learn and practice how to use them effectively. The good thing is, many of the “bad guys” don’t bother learning how to use them effectively and many of the trained people are not the sort you are likely to have to come up against.
22 rimfire, 12 ga., 5.56/223. 30-30, 30.06, 308, 7.62×39, 9mm, 45ACP, 357/38 are well known and used…..you would have a good chance to find ammo in these calibers even if you are taking it off a dead body…and guns in these calibers will do whatever you need done….If SHTF you will use whatever you can scrounge gun or ammo wise….you can what if it to death, but the bottom line is use whatever you have….