Rimfire .22LR Is Not A Wise Defense Choice

14 Comments

1. Salty what is your opinion on the Remington Thunderbolt 22 LR ammo. For hunting? For training for larger weapons? Simple tin can target practice? In my limited use of Thunderbolt I found it very dirty best used for bolt action guns, maybe revolvers.

   As far as the 22 LR for self defense I prefer it to harsh words. Better what is at hand than what is in the weapons locker. A 22 LR or 22 WMR rifle with good ammo is nothing I would want shot at me. From my research and actual usage a 22 Mag rifle has the same basic power as a 38 Special pistol bullet. I know that poachers have found it very effective in dropping turkeys and deer so…

   If your planning on working in your homestead post SHTF UNLESS your planning on over watch designated shooters (GOOD Idea BTW) a 22 Rifle with a good sling will not hamper your ability to work and still have some self defense. A condom over the muzzle will keep it clear from crud. For garden pests a 22 revolver works great as a pocket gun as I’ve had bad issues with pocket lint etc. jamming small semi-auto pistols. Revolvers give you a chance to use some 22 Short for quieter pest removal as well as full power ammo when the extra noise is not as important as STOPPING that sick looking animal.

   Just my humble experiences your mileage may vary.

   • It is dirty, there’s no question about it… but it goes bang most of the time and we clean our guns after every shooting, so I would class it as normal, every day bulk ammo about the same as Golden Bullets or Federal bulk. I’ve not had much jamming problems with it, but some falilure to fire.

     In the shooting session (this last Sunday) where these pictures were taken, we had one that failed to fire and stuck a little in the barrel of the S&W 22 seen in the picture. By then the gun was good and dirty. Spice had probably shot 750 rounds, and it was right at the end.

     Why did I choose Thunderbolts? The gun shop had them on sale for $14 a box when I was there Friday.

     I’m a much bigger fan of CCI Mini-Mags & Stingers, the whole three-cents-per-round thing with those Thunderbolts has a quality all it’s own.

   • We shoot a lot of that Thunderbolt because it’s so cheap. It is dirty. Some semi-autos will take it, some won’t … it’s one way to detect which semi-autos are generous about accepting cheap ammo. When I’m working alone at The Place I carry my Glock 9mm. I’ve a tool belt complete with holster to keep it from getting plant gunk in it. The garden pests are generally not out in the middle of the day when I’m working anyway; the thing I’m most likely to have to shoot would be a rabid animal. A hostile human is also possible, although even more unlikely. I wouldn’t shoot either one unless it was a clear and present danger, so short range defense is fine.

     • Spice and Salty I did some checking on the Thunderbolt and was mildly surprised how well it compared to CCI Mini Mags (my personal favorite). I am going to pick up some ASAP to test for accuracy. When I speak of a easy to carry work gun post SHTF (or as I use it today pest removal) I will start with a last year story. I was working in the garden when my dog made a weirdly scared sound. I looked around and really fast my dog was fleeing a pack of dogs? I was able to snap shoot at 40-75 yards several hits on that dog pack and my dog came back scared but healthy. I suspect with a Pistol I suspect my dog would have been eaten by that pack. Ballistics wise although the 22 is far less a round than the 9mm I prefer the 22 carbine over the 9mm because a zeroed at 50 yards carbine with CCI or Thunderbolts has a bullet drop of 5.5 inches at 100 yards (center of mass Ok) and 20 inches at 150 yards (aim for a Meth heads face hit him in the belly). I am not the best pistol shooter but few shooters I know can hit a man sized target much past 50 yards. Post SHTF even with an over watch designated marksman covering your work teams having the ability to shoot 150 yards effectively seems wise. At least in my location a 200 yard shot is pretty long given vegetation and terrain.

       Not the best defense round but pretty handy for a lot of tasks.

2. I would rather shoot a Ruger 10/22 with an extended magazine with enough rounds to make it hurt and stop a threat. Although this can be considered lethal force, it is unlikely that body shots will be lethal. It is still necessary proving that lethal force was necessary afterwards. However, proof of assailant’s weapon to justify lethal force is still required. A big man will a big club can justify defensive counter action with lethal force, a gun, I would think. The question is whether a gun can be considered the right lethal force reaction. Complicated these days.

3. Always be cautious of the Man (Person) that has only one firearm, for they probably know how to use it well.

   That said I do like the Rugger 1022 with the CCI Stingers. Rides with a standard 10 round mag, with 3 – 25 round mag’s right over there —->
   Sure hope like hack I never need to use it for anymore that the critters that bother my Garden and maybe that 4 point Buck I got last year. YES it will take down a deer at 50 yards, one shot, one kill.

   KNOW your firearm, and how to use it.

4. I can think of one other compelling reason which AFAIK was not covered in the text above – .22 LR does not store well in the long term. Case in point, my Dad. He had thousands of rounds of .22 stored away for many years. When he needed to qualify for his concealed carry license, he took his Ruger MkIV and, while on the firing line he discovered that the lead projectiles had oxidized and swelled up with a white crust. They would not chamber at all. He looked through umpteen boxes of the stuff and every single round was corroded…a few thousand useless .22’s. It’s true that the stuff was about 30 years old…but that still isn’t good enough for stockpiling…especially if you are younger and plan on prepping for future decades.

5. All ammo can corrode if not stored properly. Keeping it away from excessive heat, moisture and oxygen keeps ammo good for decades. Ammo cans are very good but if your budget limits you, recycling washed and dried glass food jars works well. Painting the metal lids would expand lifespan. I bet even peanut butter plastic jars would work well also IF you clean it very well.

   I’ve recently used some 22 ammo from my fathers stash that was at least from the 70’s. Nearly perfect. Ammo cans work well.

   • Michael – I’m not talking ammo in general, I am talking about the projectile of the .22 LR. All lead will oxidize over time. The problem with many .22’s is that they are “naked” lead…and probably pure lead so, regardless of storage conditions, they will eventually turn white and develop a frosty rind of lead oxide. In the case of .22’s, they will not chamber once the outer surface has oxidized. I cannot speak for the copper washed .22’s, but perhaps they may far better during long storage.

6. Brian thanks for the reply. You are correct once corrosion occurs NO Ammo should be trusted. Not only for difficulty chambering and if you force it who says you can properly clear it and clean up that mess… Gunsmiths are expensive. If ammo is corroded I am suspect that it was improperly stored and even the primers and propellant is to be questioned. Hang fires and such are NOT FUN.

   Trying to shoot corroded ammo is a lot like trying to eat a dented BULGING can of food. Not worth the risk of weapons malfunction or food poisoning. When in doubt throw it out is not a bad habit.

   Copper washed 22 ammo does fare better in storage than the naked lead 22 ammo. However last year I was shooting up a bunch of my fathers old 22 ammo stash from his ammo can I found mid 70’s naked lead 22 shot just fine. No noticeable amount of oxidation noted. Maybe it had something to do with that packet of desiccant in there? Or perhaps the gasket sealed environment limiting the amount of O2 available for oxidation?

   Keep it clean, keep it away from excessive heat, keep it dry and store it inside a ammo can or clean jar and most ammo will be good for decades. Desiccant helps too, that’s why the US Military uses it.

7. Is 22 long rifle ideal as a defensive round? No..

   However let us take into consideration a couple points..

   Grid Down…
   Advanced Medical Treatment Down

   Nobody is going to want to risk being shot.. Mo bullets is Mo better and you can still acquire a nice quantity of mo .22 Long Rifle affordably..

   Add some S&W ARs in .22 Long Rifle..to your existing inventory of AR 15s (You do have an existing inventory) At a distance it would be darn hard to tell the difference until they are fired. Mixed into a defensive plan along with regular ARs.. (You might want to put them with less experienced shooters or maybe have asome of your experienced shooters use them for delivering suppressive fires.. In either case they can blast away at the bad guys for quite a while at a high rate of fire and not put a dent in your inventory if you have been diligent in acquiring rounds.. If they have sufficient magazines they can lay one heck of a lot of suppressive fires on a position.. and you can be more precise with a regular AR.. in .556 center fire,

   Here is the deal.. against some threats a dozen non military types could put up a pretty stout defense.. Sufficient to encourage the bad guys to look for greener pastures.. Against a committed well organized and supported enemy force…. your toast anyway.. The Zombie popylips types are the more likely threat.. .22 long rifle is sufficient.

   Ruger 10/22s in number would be fine as well.. (never a big fan)

   Like I said nobody wants to get hit.

   .22 long rifle can easily be suppressed… can easily take a deer or other small game.. (You probably should be raising rabbits etc .. not out in the woods hunting to begin with till things settle back down anyway)

   Dual use .. Cost effective Training and Operationally sufficient mixed in.

   What’s not to love?

   • Thanks for the comment! Interestingly, unlike most other preppers in the USA, we don’t have any other AR-15 in the inventory, the AR-15 22 is the only one we own. We have a couple of AR-10’s which kinda-sorta look like AR-15’s from a distance but other than that, we are AR free. We use Tavor X95 bullpups as our main defensive carbines, along with the above mentioned AR-10’s. Still, it’s a very good point for most preppers.

8. Appropriate enough commentary here on the subject, as the other night I was watching a YouTube video a friend sent with comedian Bill Burr as a guest on the Conan O’Brien show. Bill, who coincidentally lives in the above referenced Boston area, was going on and on (on Conan!) as to why “all you need is a .22”. Love his humor, but he should stick to what he knows best, not recommending too light of caliber cartridges to save your life.

9. This posting sort of reminds me of the unending caliber wars. 45 VS 9 MM, etc. etc. Man’s unending perpetual search for the best gun,,, the best caliber.

   I submit there are just 3 factors that will matter in a “gunfight”.
   #1.. Shot placement.
   #2. Shot placement.
   #3. Shot placement

   While a 22 LR may not be my first choice in a “defensive caliber”. It certainly is capable. As the old saw goes; A hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 45,

   Purely my outlook. YMMV

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